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Israel vs. Lebanon - Justified defense or acts of agression? (Späť na článok)

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" It is not precisely aimed at the enemy - the Hezbollah movement, and sparing the lives of civilist isn't much in focus as well."
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Dont know about that. I think its the other way around. Israel isnt attacking the whole of Lebanon, but mostly only the cities with a known Hizballah presence - southern Lebanon, southern Beirut and so on - other parts of Lebanon are virtually intact (well apart for the road infrastructure). And on the contrary of what you state, the main point that should be stressed is that the the opposing forces differ precisely in their method - while Israel is consciously trying to minimize civilian deaths - on both sides - Hizballah is consciously trying to maximize civilian deaths - on both sides! - not only by firing their rockets not at the israely military but on civilians but also by using the Lebanese population as shields. They dont go into the open to fight, they know they wouldnt stand a chance, instead they hide among civilians (and how many of the killed civilians were actually Hizballah fighters we will never know exactly - remember that after his death a Hizballah fighter all of a sudden turns into a civilian), use them as shields for their operation and then act their outrage in front of tv cameras.
Of course we may argue about the methods Israel chose in its fight and whether they arent in effect bringing about the wrong results (some might say that the Hizballah has used Israel as their means toward islamization of Lebanon and stopping the democratization process), but make no mistake who is more "civilised" in this conflict.
 
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re

but dont forget you're comparing Hizballah, being a terorist organisation, the goals and methods of which are illegal and not in compliance with any international, war and human rights treaties and laws; and Israel, beign a souvereign state which should comply with war law, human rights etc.
however, as you can see on your own after your comparison, the difference is not that significant as it should be between a state army and a terorist military organisation
 
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thanks for answering this question

yes, it is indeed pure cynicism of hezbollah movement that they decided to settle in urbanized areas and misuse civilians as living shields for their bases.
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to answer one of many questions in the end of article - why there is no lasting peace in the region despite so much effort - well, as we could see, through ages there has been a lot done by international milieu and after all by israelis too, to stop the violence and continue discussion at the table. but on the other hand not much was done by the other part - israel withdrew from gaza a year ago and first action by the palestinians was to destroy what was left of the houses and infrastructure and recently use the abandonned bufferzone to shoot on israeli settlements that were on israeli soil. after all...no wonder, no one wants to deal with palestinians since their own government and authorities have no power over population whatsoever and lack any kind of control.
 
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That is true. But on the flipside, voices of people in Israel often claim there is much more hostility among political authorities of both sides than among regular people. Then something has to be wrong with the system. People who are unhappy with the situation vote for "their own" who promise to defend them from the others, but in fact just escallate the tension and paradoxically make the situation for people worse. It's like the latent hostility based from common unhappiness is charging the real extremist and warlords with power.

 
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finally someone who knows what hizballah does

"by using the Lebanese population as shields" - this is so true
 
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hi

reason why so many innocent people dies in Libanon is that Hizballah is hiding among them and they are firing rockets near by houses, where are hidden normal people, who somtimes have nothing to do with this war. Hizballah does that for several reasons:
1. they know they will survive longer if they live among normal people, it is harder to attack them and find them
2. israel looks now as "the bad guy", because Israel is killing innocent people (they do not want to kill them, but they are too close to Hizballah fighters - really tough situation for Israel)

what I think about it is here:
http://taraba.blog.sme.sk/c/57494/Izrael-Libanon-Hizballah-Syria-Iran.html

sorry only Slovak language.
 
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to nie je vojna Izraelu proti Libanonu.
Libanon je akurát nesvojprávny štát, ktorý si nevie spraviť poriadok na svojom území. Libanon uprednostnil ľahšie "riešenie" a zavrel oči nad Hizbaláhom na svojom území v mýlnej predstave, že mu to zabezpečí pokoj.
 
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aha

takze aj okupacia ceskoslovenska bola vlastne legitimna, lebo sme nemali dost sil sa jej ubranit vlastnymi silami? ;-)
 
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neporovnával by som superveľmoc ako ZSSR k hrśtke teroristov hizbaláhu ktorí sa skrývajú medzi civilistami. Libanon, aj za cenu obetí (tie prichádzajú až dnes) mal schopnosť vyhnať teroristov zo svojho územia.
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Ak to nebolo možné v 80 rokoch, tak teraz sa to dalo bezproblémov (Sýria si dnes nemôže dovoliť otvorene bojovať na strane teroristov).
 
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Asi tazko povedat do akej miery to je alebo nie je mozne, no otazka ktoru povazujem za klucovu je ci za tento stav mozno pausalne trestat obyvatelov krajiny takto vedenou vojnou.
 
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Tak to je ok jedine v pripade, ze tie rakety dokazu pred dopadom rozlisit, kto podporuje teror Hizbalahu a kto nie. Vazne, to co teraz robi Izrael je velmi zvrateny pristup k rieseniu konfliktov , ktory Zapad uz nepraktikuje veky. Izrael sa takymto spravanim na civilizovanu krajinu zapadnych hodnot nepodoba.
 
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to, že je vo vojne umierajú aj civilisti je smutnou realitou odvtedy čo sa bitky nekonajú na poliach pomocou bajonetov.
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západ (europa) už zabudla čo to znamená vojna. a naviac súčasné počínanie europy k problemom mi trochu pripomína práve štát Libanon. Navonok to je prosperujúci štát, ale vo vnútri skrýva a potláča toľko zárodkov zla, ktoré raz strašne explodujú.
 
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Zavisi vsak od toho, aky ohlad sa na civilne obete berie. Ak si predstavim ze by tuto operaciu uskutocnila medzinarodna koalicia pod vedeim U.S.A., som si isty, ze by na to isli ovela strategickejsie, ohladuplnejsie a podstatne viac by sa snazili by sa chranit tych, ktory cielom byt nemaju. Takisto UN vojska, ti by mozno boli opatrnejsi,viac vyckavali a pouzivali menej premyslenej strategie, no civilistov by sa snazili chranit a aj zabranit humanitarnym krizam.
Zaujimalo by ma, kolko letakov v Arabcine zhodili ci rozhlasovych sprav odvysielali s infomaciou od Izrealskej pre civilistov o tom, co im hrozi, pokial sa budu vyskytovat v blizkosti jednnotiek Hizballahu. S pokynmi o tom, co maju robit, ako sa vyhnut nebezpeciu. Skor to posobi tak, ze Izreal demontruje svoju silu. Tu evidentne ma, co dobre vedia aj ti, ktori utocia. Akurat to vyzera tak, ze ako jedny tak druhy maju libanonskych civilistov paradne na haku.
 
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niekolko ton.
 
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my bad,

ak ano, tak pardon, taku spravu som nezachytil. Takuto snahu vnimam pozitivne.
 
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este co sa tyka Europy,

pokial mas na mysli moslimskych Europanov, nesuhlasim s Tebou. Za celu historiu povojnovej Europy boli vyznamenejsie incidenty s islamskym podtextom len tri : atentaty na izralskych olympionikov ('72), a bombove utoky v Madride ('04) a Londyne ('05). Vsetky sa ale tykali vonkajsich konfliktov - vojen inde. V Europe ziju miliony moslimov a ziadny teror sa tu nedeje - z jednoducheho dovodu, Europa vytvara podmienky na solidne fungovanie pre vsetkych jej obyvatelov a nezivi nenavist z ktorej by teror mohol vyplynut.
 
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jedina izraelska reakcia na unos jeho vojakov, ktora by zrejme uspokojila zvysok sveta by asi spocivala v odspievani shalom aleichem malachei, mudzahedinom z hizbalahu cez hranicu http://www.hillelcincinnati.org/sounds/Shalom%20Aleichem.mp3 a naslednym kompletnym odstahovanim sa izraelskych zidov na masadu...
nepochybujem, ze "rimanov" by sa medzi miestnymi skutzim nazbieralo nadostac.
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izraelska doktrina ako riesit konflikty kde zlyhava sila, je pouzit este viac sily. je na diskusiu, ci je jej uplatnenie spravne za kazdych okolnosti (najma pokial ide o "real-estate" spor s palestincanmi), avsak kto si predstavuje - ze staci nasralaha aj s jeho 3 000 raketami pozvat na kavicku, strngotat meisenskym porcelanom a dzavotat o tom "ze nam je luto" - a potom nad blizkym vychodom vyjde duha je na omyle. nevyjde. s fanatikmi sa nediskutuje, nepopija sa s nimi kavicka a ani neuzatvaraju dohody. europa ma svoju trpku skusenost kam takyto pristup vedie. skoda, ze nema aj pamat.
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riesenie palestinskeho problemu existuje uz desatrocie v podobe zaverov zenevskych dohod http://www.geneva-accord.org/Templates/General/general.aspx?docid=935&FolderID=39&lang=en , v pripade libanonu je to obnovenie zvrchovanosti a kontroly libanonu nad celym svojim uzemim. to, ze to libanonu musi pripomenut az izraelske bombardovanie je dalsia z tragedii, ktorej musi tato krajina celit. iste, rozbiteho porcelanu by bola mensia skoda...
 
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indeed!

resp. presne tak!
 
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wow

dalsi rozumny prispevok :-)
 
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a preco potom

Izrael namiesto bombardovania civilnych cielov a civilnej infrastruktury neposle Mossad aby Nasrallaha zavesil za gule do prievanu? To by podla mna bolo omnoho humannejsie riesenie. Takto si len vychovava malych buducich Nasrallahov :((
 

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